Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

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nowhere_production
 
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Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby nowhere_production » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:42 pm

Hi everyone!
My question is both for producers and customers here.

I've discovered revostock just a few months ago when some of my clients gave me Revostock AE projects for customisation. Most of them needed videos for youtube or for their websites, so everytime I had to scale down original composition to match their format and it took a while to render on my intel q6600.

A few days ago I've read an article about full HD and it tells that still the most popular full HD signal generator on our planet is Sony Playstation 3 and most people use it only for games..

I would like to ask everyone who uses revostock AE projects if they need full HD for their projects or they use them to render HD 1280*720 and smaller formats output videos?

Most af my projects are HD 1280*720 and I'm still not sure that it's worth moving to higher dimensions for future projects and I would appreciate any feedback.

Many thanks,
Igor


CSproductions
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby CSproductions » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:42 am

My experience and observation leads me to believe that the majority of stock footage buyers have no idea what HD versus SD is. They've heard from somewhere that HD is better, so they ask for HD in their productions, and they buy HD stock footage, even though the video is for the web where HD is totally impractical because it must be scaled down, as you're pointing out. I read in the trade publications that the large production houses, and even a lot of the not-so-large outfits, are doing HD because the demand is now greater than for SD, but I think it's because the client asks for it not knowing what it is and how it doesn't apply to their intended use. It's more expensive than SD, of course, and more often than not the client isn't receptive to an explanation of why he's wasting his money. He's heard that HD is better than SD, that's what he wants, and that's what he's gonna get, by golly, so we'll profit from the client's stubbornness and ignorance. Ironically, I'm still working exclusively in SD for stock footage!

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PixelGirl Media
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby PixelGirl Media » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:50 am

I think that ignorance could play a role in part of the reason that some clients just automatically demand HD. However I think there are 2 other factors that play a big part as well-- 1- Futureproofing- If they get the project in HD, then they won't have to have it redone anytime soon if it's something they will use for a while. 2- HD looks better-- If you take an HD clip and scale it down for an SD project, 99% of the time it looks better than an SD file.

Since Igor was originally referring to HD AE projects-- I think that most producers produce them this way so that they don't have to go back and redo them in a few years when people don't won't SD. A lot of the projects have SD versions in them though so you can use that rather than the HD version.

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ODesigns
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby ODesigns » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:57 am

Personally, I think 1080 is overkill for microstock (for now). I'm not only a producer, but also a buyer. And I can tell you that 1080 HD isn't something we--as a production company--create or even get asked for. If anything, we get the occasional request for 720 for use in movie theater advertisements. But 98% of everything we do leaves the building on BetaCam SP, so, that means we only need 486.

As a buyer, when I'm looking to buy a clip, I look for 720 or less. If the only option is 1080, then I reluctantly choose that format. Or, I move on until I find a 720 (or even 480) clip that's comparable.

As a producer, I like 1080 because I get more $$ on a sale. But overall, I don't think the average microstock purchaser cares if a clip is "full" HD or not; they just look at price and the quality of the clip.

I've settled on producing my clips at 720. I like that size. The file sizes and uploads aren't too weighty, and I think that size is the "sweet" spot for buyers. Not too pricey, but yet, it gives decent quality that can be downsized to 480 (or, gulp, web sized) without breaking the budget of the customer.

Now, that's not to say I don't still upload 1080. I do, if I feel the shot is "worthy" of that resolution. I'm sure many others will disagree with that philosophy. Now if Revostock starts auto downsizing, well then I'll upload more 1080, since the customer will have his/her pick at the desired resolution. (I don't manually downsize myself anymore due to the time it takes.)

So, in a nutshell, create great stuff and it'll sell regardless of the resolution.

Oh, and when I buy the occasional AE project here, I find the 1080 HD sized projects TAKE TOO LONG to render for my tastes. Even on my hefty workstation at work. Sorry AE guys/gals, your AE projects may LOOK cool, but actually, they're impractical. Tone it down a bit.
Last edited by ODesigns on Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
James Orlowski
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DEMO REEL: http://www.orlowskidesigns.com

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postquis design
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby postquis design » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:43 am

ODesigns wrote:
Oh, and when I buy the occasional AE project here, I find the 1080 HD sized projects TAKE TOO LONG to render for my tastes. Even on my hefty workstation at work. Sorry AE guys/gals....


Hey James !

Valid point you make there.....

FYI for those new to AEPs.....For any HD 1080 project that is dropped into a downsized resolution comp, the render time is the same as the original HD render PLUS the additional time it takes to render the down-sized SD comp... albeit a small additional amount of time but "additional" nonetheless.

The exception here would be if the producer "recreated" the project in a "native SD" resolution comp that had only SD assets in it.

I hear ya though..... even creating HD 1080 AEPs takes time with all the test ram previews that go on throughout the design process..... :roll: ... it is what is is... :D

Ron
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kencalh
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby kencalh » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:22 am

720s the minimum size, agree - I have never ever rendered anything in HD and never will; I end up using the comp render to half size option from HD original comps/projects I buy here ... as long as the project is 720 that's big enough for me, fwiw...

and, happy new year's, everyone!

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postquis design
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby postquis design » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:32 am

Hi kencalh,

Thanks for the feedback here regarding the topic !

A question for you.... as it relates to your workflow needs...

Is you your final output destined for web use ???


and Happy New Year too !

Ron
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dnavarrojr
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby dnavarrojr » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:08 pm

I wouldn't mind uploading more footage at D1, but the problem is all of my source material is 16x9 and I don't want to decide what gets cut.

I wish Revo and other sites supported 864x486. I think it would be a popular format.

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ironstrike
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby ironstrike » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:22 pm

hmm I do believe this is my first post on this site.

I think SD will be around for a long time.
Is 1080 p really useful now? No... not to most people, its close to 2k but even the indie film community uses 720p for everything.

However Everything I make is 1080, I have nearly 2000 clips and 80% of them are 1080. Why? Because Im insane? No not entirely.BTW I havent uploaded to revo yet, Im preparing to upload a ton.

The reason is because of the future, you think 5 or 10 years from now a 1080 clip is going to be hard to make? I make everything 1080 to future proof my portfolio. Its all about future proof.

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nowhere_production
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby nowhere_production » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:37 pm

Many thanks everyone for answers!

I've read all answers and the conclusion is that I shall use full HD if uploading footages and HDV 1280*720 for AE projects.

A great footage.. it will be great even after 20 years and no future technologies will be able to change that, thats why I think that when uploading it I shall think of compatibily with future formats..

But for AE projects I shall use 1280*720. It's faster and cheaper to make, it takes less time to render for our customers. 5 Years will pass, there will be AE CS8 or smth like that and such software I think will provide much more possibilities for AE templates, I'm sure that 3D will be integrated. So the 'lifeteme' of AE project is 3 years or so... maybe a little more.. and its reasobale to make it not for future standarts but for nowaday needs and 1280*720 is more than enough.

Many thanks!
Igor


Aristan
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby Aristan » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:41 am

Guess I may be one of the few people at RevoStock that only works in 1080 HD. I find that very hard to believe, but I guess it could be true.

I work for a large church that produces a weekly television show. Our Studio is full HD and tapeless. Our main screens in the sanctuary are full HD IMAG projectors as well, so SD serves no purpose where I work. I primarily produce commercials for the show which is broadcast nationally-some of which are shown on HD stations. If I work with anything that is not 1080, I am required to upres it. Oddly enough, I still have to produce my spots title safe for 4:3, as some of our SD stations choose to cut off the ends rather than letterbox the show.

What if someone is looking for some footage or AE project for use on a motion picture or a nationally broadcast program? Aren't we aiming a little low if we aren't preparing to compete with the big dogs? Almost all television shows are now being shot in full HD. Many Internet videos are just re-purposed for use in broadcast advertising. This isn't the future, really. It is now.

Occasionally, I am asked to produce videos that are larger than 1080. For our upcoming Christmas program, we will be using two 1080 IMAG projectors with a 70 'x8' LCD screen on stage to be used as a set piece. While the LCD resolution is not nearly as high as our IMAGs, the length is going to require us to produce images that are two or three times as long as 1080 and they will have to interact with the IMAGs. Though this is a rare example, I know that there are big productions (concerts, award ceremonies, etc.) that do this kind of thing all the time. They can't produce all of the content from scratch. Why not give them something they can use?

Yes- I hate the render time. But I have just come to expect it in order to get what I need. People who download your work for serious 1080 projects should not be surprised one bit at the render time. They will likely be thankful they have what they need in full 1080.

Jim
a.k.a. Aristan
Last edited by Aristan on Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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postquis design
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby postquis design » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:34 pm

Hey Jim,

Good to see someone here who works beyond the '1080 realm'.

Your are correct regarding awards shows along with concerts as well as huge corporate presentations..... many of these types of events have a HUGE on-stage screen presence as part of their set design.... and at times, the screen elements ARE the set. I've worked as a Technical Director on many such events... dealing with JUST the screens ... alongside a show TD who is handling the main show broadcast. The elements often play back from multiple disk based devices being fed into multiple screens which in turn create a much larger visual element. The technical requirement for such elements often is 1080 if not higher as you mentioned.

IMO, it is just the perspective and position one works from within the network business, corporate world, or entertainment field OR from outside these venues.... as well as how 'BIG' the show is from a facilities standpoint (gear). Those who haven't worked in this area of the biz might not see the need.... but you are correct.... render times area a 'moot point' in the above mentioned world. They are certainly much smaller than the time invested in the preparation for the many other aspects of such an event.

all the best in your upcoming Christmas special....

Ron
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Finishedworks
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby Finishedworks » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:35 am

I try to do everything at the highest quality, then down scale for output since most networks/tv stations still require SD tapes. One thing though I have issues with is an HD AE project has all HD video placeholders and some of my source footage may be in SD which causes me to have to scale the footage up distorting it...Anyway I like HD....


fabulator
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby fabulator » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:00 am

For me the full HD content is precisely why I am so interested in Revo stock footage. I shoot with a Canon 5dmk2 and I have no interest in having to upscale backgrounds to sit with the footage I shoot. I was put off most other stock footage sites by the huge cost of HD footage.
Trust me upscaling is dull and never that rewarding

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postquis design
 
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Re: Do customers really need full HD (1920*1080)?

Postby postquis design » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:22 am

Finishedworks and fabulator,

Much thanks for sharing some feedback as buyers here at Revo !

Regarding HD placeholders with SD content.... there are some producers who take the approach of designing with a 4x3 aspect to those pre-comps or placeholders and thus cover both formats as source material without sizing up ... the tradeoff in that approach is that your HD content has to be 'pan and scanned' into those 4x3 pre-comps... for some who shoot HD with a 'protect of the SD frame' that still works.... BUT if your acquisition content is composed to take full advantage of the 16x9 canvas then those very well may not work for you.... so it gets difficult to cover ALL the bases for ALL users in each project. I imagine one could re-design each project to work with each format but that is a great deal of work to pack into each project. I have done that for 1 of my projects so I can attest to such an approach. :-) As a result I have some designed with the HD pre-comps and some with the SD ones. An alternate approach to take with HD placeholders and SD content would be to 'build out the "sidebars area" with your own graphics or a complimentary HD background behind your SD content..... just one approach if scaling presents 'quality' problems with your SD content.

fabulator,....

A question for you.... in your HD acquisition material, do you have to shoot to 'protect the 4x3 area' while composing in 16x9 ? .... or is your HD footage solely going out to HD distribution exclusively ?

thanks again for your feedback !
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